ICE’s Rob Baker Better Hope There Is No God

by

Stop deporting Military Veterans, Obama

In 2009, The United States Government deported 57 immigrant veterans of the U.S. Armed Forces. Most of the 57 individuals who put their lives on the line for the United States were Legal  Permanent Residents, or green card holders.

Here’s the purported justification for deporting people who have done more to earn their citizenship than the majority of U.S. Citizens:

“If they had gotten their citizenship, they wouldn’t be in this situation,” explained Rob Baker, who oversees Immigration and Customs Enforcement in San Diego and explains that military personnel can become citizens in three years.

“Veterans are on the fast track,” he said.

If veterans do not pursue citizenship, they are vulnerable for deportation just like any green card holder who commits a serious crime. Even some misdemeanors can lead to deportation.

Baker does review every case involving ex-military personnel and he has discretion to keep those veterans out of the deportation process.

Reporter Lauren Reynolds asked Baker, “So you could stop it if you wanted to?”

He replied, “Yes”, but he hasn’t stopped deportation for the 25 or so cases he’s reviewed so far.

Asked why he hasn’t intervened, Baker said, “As a 23 year veteran of the Air Force and Air Force Reserves, I really admire the fact that they served our country. However, these crimes they are committing are very serious crimes.”

He pointed out that the veterans were not immune from the criminal prosecutions that put them behind bars, just as they’re not immune from the laws that apply to all legal immigrants.

Rob Baker–who supposedly really admires the people he deported because they served our country– had the discretion to show his admiration by not deporting the 26 military veterans that he did. Yet, he did not.

Mr. Baker could just be one of those generic bureaucrats that follow the rules to the tee. But based on his hollow justification, it’s more likely that he lacks both logic and compassion.

War can destroy and/or permanently damage a person, both physically and mentally. It is likely that the deported military veterans committed their deportation-triggering crimes due to the horrors(PTSD) they suffered or inflicted overseas in fighting for the United States. See the irony?

Baker claimed that he did not exercise his discretion to halt deportation because these veterans committed “very serious crimes”. Crimes that trigger deportation of green-card holders do not have to be “very serious”. Drug possession, for example, can be the trigger. But that’s not really the point. Baker is implementing the law, like much of the the bloated U.S. government, without acknowledging a sense of reality.

In the U.S., many consider military service to be the greatest of proof of an individual’s support for our country. The percentage, out of all the citizens in the U.S., that serve in our armed forces is very small. Therefore, these military veterans who have indisputably proven their commitment to our nation, and have paid for it through psychological disorders and jail time, are being cast out of the U.S. when in reality they have more of a right to be here than most of the U.S. populous. Put me in the deportation line before them.

Rob Baker is not the source of this tragedy; our system is. The leader of our system is Barack Obama. The deportation of these brave souls, thus, is a wrong committed by our great leader. Every U.S. military veteran that has been deported should be immediately allowed to return to the U.S., and no others should be deported in the future. Otherwise, hopefully a higher being will take you to task for what cannot be described as anything else but a sin.

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91 Responses to “ICE’s Rob Baker Better Hope There Is No God”

  1. cookie Says:

    If it is a sin to punish lawbreakers then God himself is a sinner. He sends sinners to hell so does that make him a sinner also? What part of this didn’t you get?

    “Asked why he hasn’t intervened, Baker said, “As a 23 year veteran of the Air Force and Air Force Reserves, I really admire the fact that they served our country. However, these crimes they are committing are very serious crimes.”

  2. bjohns15 Says:

    It’s called choice of word style. I am not schooled in theology.

    Were you born in the United States, cookie?

  3. Where am I? Says:

    Article doesn’t state what crimes on average were committed. If a person assaulted or raped another person, i doubt the authorities would be very motivated to keeping an individual in the country. However if they didn’t pay 10 parking tickets, thats a bit silly.

    • bjohns15 Says:

      The article I linked to used two or three military veterans who had a gun charge and drug possession charges. An aggravated felony is a green card holder’s deportation. The “aggravated felony” choice of words is misleading because certain misdemeanors qualify for it. Either way, it appears the crimes were not “very serious” as in assault, rape, or murder.

  4. cookie Says:

    Yes, of course I was born in this country. Michigan to be exact. Choice of word style? I don’t get it.

  5. cookie Says:

    If our laws state that an immigrant must be deported for “serious” crimes such as drug possession then the laws as written must be applied. Rape and murder are not just serious crimes they are heinous crimes so why even bring them up when that wasn’t the case here?

    • bjohns15 Says:

      Yes, but Mr. Baker had the discretion to not apply the law. These men did a lot for our country. They paid their price to society by serving time. One thing you may want to know about immigration law; it is very transient. In other words, our government can decide pretty much whatever they want as it relates to immigration. Thus, I believe legislation should be implemented that provides immigrant military veterans with immunity from deportation. Are you against that?

      • Liquid Reigns Says:

        In other words, our government can decide pretty much whatever they want as it relates to immigration. Thus, I believe legislation should be implemented that provides immigrant military veterans with immunity from deportation. Are you against that?

        There service is greatly appreciated, but if they are still LPR/GC holders they must abide by the laws you state: our government can decide pretty much whatever they want as it relates to immigration. And because the Government has stated that possession of a firearm or drugs for a LPR/GC holder is a violation of his/her status, guess what.

  6. cookie Says:

    Well it must have been decided that the offenses were “serious” enough to deport. They know more than we do about these cases.

    FYI, not everyone joining the military does so for the right reasons including some Americans. Some join for monetary or educational gain or in the case of some immigrants to be granted citizenship and not necessarily because they love this country but because of the goodies they will receive with citizenship. Personally, I don’t think non-citizens should be able to join the military.

    • bjohns15 Says:

      I’d imagine that most of our military does not join exclusively for love of the country. I think the motive to enter is irrelevant; it is their actions that count.

  7. bjohns15 Says:

    Yes, but in enforcement, the law allows for discretion; it is not mandatory. Liquid, are you for a new law that insulates veteran immigrants from deportation?

    • Liquid Reigns Says:

      Liquid, are you for a new law that insulates veteran immigrants from deportation?

      No, as Baker states: “As a 23 year veteran of the Air Force and Air Force Reserves, I really admire the fact that they served our country. However, these crimes they are committing are very serious crimes.”

      He pointed out that the veterans were not immune from the criminal prosecutions that put them behind bars, just as they’re not immune from the laws that apply to all legal immigrants.

      Again, it comes down to the choices they make themselves. While in the military they could have filed for Citizenship, it would have been fast tracked, but they failed to do so, again by their own choice.

      • bjohns15 Says:

        Even if the crimes were related to what happened to them in war?

      • Liquid Reigns Says:

        As a veteran, they have access to the VA, which if they have PTSD they can be treated. You can not force them to go to the VA, it is their “choice”.

    • Liquid Reigns Says:

      Here’s a question: If we know from this article so many were deported, that you wanted Baker to use his “other” discretion on, how many actual cases were looked at and how many did he use his “other” discretion on?

      It seems you want all given a “free pass” simply because they served in the military, no matter any crimes they may/have commit(ed).

      • bjohns15 Says:

        Yes, if a legal permanent resident served in the military, I do not think they should be deported, regardless of the severity of the crime committed. Mr. Baker stated he had discretion on all these cases, but it’s not clear what would happen if he exercised it. i.e. pressure from above, etc.

      • Liquid Reigns Says:

        Yes, if a legal permanent resident served in the military, I do not think they should be deported, regardless of the severity of the crime committed.

        Then this is where we disagree. The military is a volunteer service, their choice was to join it for 4 – 8 years. They knew going in what that service entailed. For me, and many of those like me, it’s about their own “choices”, we don’t look at those in this situation as children needing a coddling mother to protect them as they are grown adults who made their own decisions.

        Now if this were a drafted military, then I think we would agree that they were forced into service and they should be granted Citizenship rights as soon as they sign the paperwork enlisting them.

      • bjohns15 Says:

        Yeah, a reasonable disagreement; both positions are subject to interpretation. Would you be more likely to agree to legislation that only renders military veterans removable if the crime was of a violent nature? Such as an imminent, dangerous threat to society? As opposed to drug possession charges?

  8. cookie Says:

    I disagree that motive isn’t important whether they be immigrant or citizen. Of course being realistic the military does offer money and education for those who have no other avenue to improving their lot in life. I just think that only citizens should be able to join the military.

    I don’t think that immigrants should be insulated from being deported just because they joined the military. Crimes are crimes and they must follow the laws or pay the consequences. They aready know up front what kind of behavior is going to get them deported so what is the problem? Why do things that will get you deported?

  9. cookie Says:

    Sure. Let me guess, it happens to mostly immigrants that have joined our military knowing full well that if they don’t adhere to a certain type of behavior but broke the rules anyway that they will be deported. I get it!

  10. bjohns15 Says:

    On a similarly-related topic, the rationale behind deportation of criminal immigrants is because they are dangerous to society and thus by removing them from the country, public safety is served.

    But it’s not that straightforward; in many instances, it appears that deporting criminal immigrants has exacerbated public safety in the U.S.(See Ms-13). It’s a loaded issue and I am not certain on it.

  11. Liquid Reigns Says:

    Would you be more likely to agree to legislation that only renders military veterans removable if the crime was of a violent nature? Such as an imminent, dangerous threat to society? As opposed to drug possession charges?

    No. They fall under the rules that their status places them in. Favor to one group, veterans, results in others also wanting “favor” or “fairness”. Fairness has to play a role to all deemed “immigrants”, the only exceptions are asylum and TPS based on their countries disasters, Chili and Haiti.

    • bjohns15 Says:

      Yes, yet it appears you take a very strict-law approach to a system that is very inconsistent. For example, if you look at the Immigration Judge statistics, let’s say asylum grants for the sake of this argument, there are judges in the same jurisdiction that have ridiculously disparate grant rates: Below 10 percent may be one judge, over 80 percent for other judges.

      • Liquid Reigns Says:

        While the difference in asylum cases is great compared to what is being discussed, LPR/GC holders violating laws, since most applying for asylum have yet to break any laws. Asylum is usually asked for at a port of entry, or granted to those from countries having disasters, Haiti and Chili (Those here already as illegal immigrants are granted temporary relief, deportations on hold, as well as those seeking to come here from those countries). Asylum still doesn’t keep you from being deported if you break any of the conditions or laws per your status.

      • bjohns15 Says:

        Yes, I still think law should be changed to address immigrant veterans.

  12. cookie Says:

    Why is it that the pro-illegals always think that our laws should be adjusted to accomodate foreingers?

    • bjohns15 Says:

      I’ve already explained in very specific detail why I believe the law should be changed for immigrant military veterans. You can disagree, but it ends there.

  13. cookie Says:

    You take it one step further though. You think that our immigration laws shoud also be changed to accomodate illegal “immigrants” also.

  14. Rick Says:

    Legal Immigrants are subject to the draft. We have already deported veterans that where drafter to fight in Vietnam. When a legal Immigrant turns 18, by law he must fill out his draft form. The VA does not always help its Veterans. Many Veterans dont even know they have PTSD.
    Look how long it took Vietnam Veterans to get help . If your going to argue do your homework.
    Here is the funny part. If one of this Veterans dies in battle he is already given citizenship. Is this some kind of April fools joke?

    • bjohns15 Says:

      I don’t know what homework you are referring to. Please elaborate.

    • Liquid Reigns Says:

      If your going to argue do your homework.

      The surviving family members must apply for posthumous citizenship for the non-citizen military member. They are not given citizenship upon their death in combat. I suggest you try reading Section 239A of the INA. Here’s a link to survivors benefits:

      http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/m-601.pdf

      Yes, the VA can and has denied benefits to veterans, that does not mean that t hey can not apply for the benefits as I stated, not does it mean that hey can not appeal their claims either.

      • Rick Says:

        Thank you for the link. I am talking about the Veteran that is killed not his/her family. He is automatically given citizenship if killed. His coffin is cover with an American flag. His family receives that same flag.
        Now if anyone believes this people join the service for a fast track to citizenship and I end my case here. There is no point in explaining what love for a country is.

      • bjohns15 Says:

        Rick,

        You do realize that if a veteran is dead, it’s a moot point whether they are granted citizenship or not?

      • Rick Says:

        Yup. that’s why I said is a joke. Wonder if that was Bush wanting to be funny. BTW First soldier to get killed in Iraq was an immigrant. Legal resident. Before Clinton there was never a US service person deported regardless of his/her crime.

      • Liquid Reigns Says:

        Before Clinton there was never a US service person deported regardless of his/her crime.

        You should do better research, as there were Vietnam vets deported after Vietnam, there were even veterans deported after the Korean War. You should really get off the Liberal/Progressive hyperbole.

      • Rick Says:

        It’s clear you support the deportation of the men and women that fought for your freedom. The men and women who are willing to give there life for you. Enough said 😉

      • Liquid Reigns Says:

        That fought for my freedom?? I fought for my own freedom, I am an Army Vet. Now, don’t misconstrue the claims. Your claim is LPR/GC holders in the military are granted citizenship due to their death in battle which is considerably incorrect. You are now claiming I am for the deportation of soldiers who served. I am for the deportation of those who violated their immigration status agreements, it doesn’t matter to me at that point whether they were/or are military veterans. The discipline they learned while in the military should have carried over to their civilian life, if it did not, then who is really to blame?

      • bjohns15 Says:

        Liquid, Even though you did fight for your freedom, those that are currently serving are fighting for your freedom as well.

      • Rick Says:

        HAHA Thanks Liquid. that is a very nice statement. You Fought for your own freedom. No one else was around you. take it you never saw combat and if you did there were no Immigrants to pick you up if you where to fall. You just dont see the main point. So let me guess. you get shot. A corpsmen comes to your rescue. Now this person might have committed a crime before joining the armed forces and you know this. So you tell him/her “Dont save my live. Your not a born American”

      • Liquid Reigns Says:

        Now this person might have committed a crime before joining the armed forces.

        So in your view, military service should allow all prior crimes to go unpunished? Join the military and any and all prior and future convictions are forgiven. Joing the military and become an instant citizen! (is what you are implying). So whats stopping all LPR/GC holders from joining?

        So you tell him/her “Dont (sic) save my live. Your not a born American

        Go to love the ignorance spewed. You keep changing the scenarios to somehow justify your position.

      • bjohns15 Says:

        If an LPR/GC holder had committed crimes prior to enlisting, they must not have been serious enough to trigger deportation. It is more likely that the LPR/GC holder’s crimes post-service were what triggered it.

        Given the relatively small number of servicemen deported, I think a small exception can be carved into the law without having an effect on other areas of immigration.

      • Liquid Reigns Says:

        You and I have already agreed to agree to disagree, Bryan.

        If an LPR/GC holder had committed crimes prior to enlisting, they must not have been serious enough to trigger deportation.

        That is correct, it may very well be the second, third, fourth, etc. crime that may have eventually triggered deportation after the discharge from the military. It may only be one infraction after military service that is enough to trigger deportation. The fact of the matter is that the offense(s) happened, that the offense was committed by the charged and their own choice fully knowing the rules of their status resulting in deportation.

      • Rick Says:

        unpunished NO I am a strong believer. You do the crime you do the time. It is deporting them that I am against.

      • Rick Says:

        Here is a link. Coming for a lawyers mouth. btw there is a part 2. If you have the time please take a look. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg880D796vw&feature=related

      • Rick Says:

        I agree. It does not do the person any good. I was reading that it might help his/her family in the long run.

      • Liquid Reigns Says:

        Thank you for the link. I am talking about the Veteran that is killed not his/her family.

        The soldier is NOT GRANTED automatic citizenship if he is a LPR/GC holder in the military and killed during battle. The family MUST APPLY for posthumous citizenship for the soldier.

        He is automatically given citizenship if killed.

        REALLY, please post a link to any document that shows your inept claim. (I will be waiting forever since there is no grant of citizenship to a fallen soldier who is a LPR/GC holder, unless the family of that soldier applies for his posthumous citizenship award.

        Are you a military person or veteran, Rick? I’m willing to bet you are not. You see, I am a veteran of the military.

        I suggest that you do your homework and show a LPR/GC soldier getting his citizenship bestowed upon him/her for their combat death.

    • Rick Says:

      No one said anything about paperwork. The Soldier/sailor has to fill it all out before anything happens not his family. I see your argument but really. What good is it for him? Guess he can always raise his/her hand wile in the coffin.
      I see your a very close minded individual. Someone is willing to give there life for you and your willing to throw them away. BTW I am ex Navy, USS Forrestal CV-59 I might add. Here is something for you to read. Hope it does not bored you. http://www.durantdemocrat.com/view/full_story/1161813/article-Posthumous-citizenship-for-US-troops-killed-in-Iraq-brings-conflicted-feelings-for-families

      • Liquid Reigns Says:

        Actually the soldier doesn’t have to fill it out, and yes, the family can after his/her death. Not only that, but the Secretary of Defense, or the Secretary’s designee in USCIS can file the forms for them as well.

        Sure the soldier may have applied prior to death (according to your article at the time of his enlistment as a Green Card Soldier which does not guarantee citizenship as it is still an application) and can then be awarded posthumous (fast tracked at that time and granted), but based on your comment (He is automatically given citizenship if killed.), you are implying that they are granted citizenship simply because they served and died in combat, which is inherently incorrect and very misleading. Nothing is automatic, especially if now you are conceding that the soldier had to fill out his own application at the time of enlisting.

        As for me being a very closed minded person, I appreciate their service and have no problem with them being granted posthumous citizenship, but your broad argument left to much to be desired, wrong implications and misleading to anybody reading what you have written.

      • Liquid Reigns Says:

        No one said anything about paperwork.

        Your own link even states that they must file the paperwork.

        The right to become an American is not automatic for those who die in combat. Families must formally apply for citizenship within two years of the soldier’s death, and not all choose to do so.
        This just over halfway down in your link.

        And this just above half way down your link: “Green card soldiers,” they are often called, and early in the war, Bush signed an executive order making them eligible “to apply” for citizenship as soon as they enlist. Previously, legal residents in the military had to wait three years. “To apply” doesn’t grant them Citizenship, unless their application is accepted, which may or may not happen.

        What good is it for him?

        It’s beneficial for the immediate family.

        As for me being a very close minded individual, might I suggest you prove my arguments incorrect vs attacking me personally. By your own link you have proven your statement inaccurate and mine correct.

  15. Liquid Reigns Says:

    Here, I’ve done your homework for you:

    http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/n-644instr.pdf

    Public Law 101-249, as amended, provides that an alien or non-citizen national of the United States who dies as a result of injury or disease incurred by active duty with the U.S. Armed Forces during specified periods of military hostilities may be granted U.S. citizenship.
    If the application is approved, a Certificate of Citizenship will be issued in the name of the deceased veteran.

    The certificate establishes that the decedent is considered a citizen of the United States as of the date of his or her death. Posthumous citizenship is an honorary status commemorating the bravery and sacrifices of the veteran. The certificate allows certain qualifying family members to apply for benefits under section 319(d) of the INA or remain classified as immediate relatives for obtaining lawful permanent residence.

    Sorry it doesn’t give your claims any validity, but it sure does to my statements.

    • Liquid Reigns Says:

      Look here, another link backing up my statements:

      http://cfr.vlex.com/vid/392-3-application-posthumous-citizenship-19608575

      8 CFR 392.3 – Application for posthumous citizenship.

      TITLE 8 – ALIENS AND NATIONALITY

      CHAPTER I – DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

      SUBCHAPTER C – NATIONALITY REGULATIONS

      PART 392 – SPECIAL CLASSES OF PERSONS WHO MAY BE NATURALIZED: PERSONS WHO DIE WHILE SERVING ON ACTIVE DUTY WITH THE UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES DURING CERTAIN PERIODS OF HOSTILITIES

      392.3 – Application for posthumous citizenship.

      (a) Persons who may apply. (1) Only one person who is either the next-of-kin or another representative of the decedent shall be permitted to apply for posthumous citizenship on the decedent’s behalf. A person who is a next-of-kin who wishes to apply for posthumous citizenship on behalf of the decedent, shall, if there is a surviving next-of-kin in the line of succession above him or her, be required to obtain authorization to make the application from all surviving next-of-kin in the line of succession above him or her. The authorization shall be in the form of an affidavit stating that the affiant authorizes the requester to apply for posthumous citizenship on behalf of the decedent.

      The affidavit must include the name and address of the affiant, and the relationship of the affiant to the decedent.

      Read more: http://cfr.vlex.com/vid/392-3-application-posthumous-citizenship-19608575#ixzz0jtUehj34

    • Liquid Reigns Says:

      Here’s one from an attorney:

      http://johnnicelli.com/CITIZENSHIP.php

      Posthumous Benefits
      Section 329A of the Immigration and Nationality Act provides for posthumous citizenship to certain members of the U.S.armed forces. A member of the U.S. armed forces who served honorably during a designated period of hostilities and dies as a result of injury or disease incurred in, or aggravated by, that service (including death in combat) may receive posthumous citizenship.The service member’s next of kin, the Secretary of Defense, or the Secretary’s designee in USCIS must submit the application for posthumous citizenship within two years of the service member’s death by filing an Application for Posthumous Citizenship, (USCIS Form N-644).

      Now, Rick, if you are going to make statements blindly with no factual proof, it’s better to not say anything at all.

  16. bjohns15 Says:

    On another note, I think legislation, as it relates to immigrant veterans, is largely outdated and/or ignored because of a recurring theme that I have covered in this blog: the indifference of the majority of the American people.

    For example, whether you agree or not with my argument, a simple fact remains: the extra-marital affair of Tiger Woods; the death of Michael Jackson–they all received exponentially more media attention than the deportation of immigrant veterans, or any veteran story for that matter!

    This kind of distortion of matter of priorities does not bode well for our country’s future. What you think, Liquid?

  17. Hector Says:

    If and when we are killed while on active duty,our coffins are draped with an American Flag just like everyone else. Then we are buried as American Citizens. We have paid our debt to society for our mistakes,the same society that we served and defended and were willing to die for. If we are good enough to die for our country,then we should be good enough to live there.

    • bjohns15 Says:

      I wholeheartedly agree, Hector. If you are one of those wronged by our government, I thank you for your service and will await the day you are welcomed back to the United States.

    • Liquid Reigns Says:

      then we are buried as American Citizens.

      You are buried as a Soldier first and foremost.

      We have paid our debt to society for our mistakes,

      Most mistakes are done after having served. You think that serving should give you free reign in order to make mistakes later?

      If we are good enough to die for our country,then we should be good enough to live there.

      And you can live here if you are good enough, but when you violate your status agreement, who’s fault is it? I know it’s not my fault that he person made the choice to violate those agreements.

      • bjohns15 Says:

        Yes, the difference between you, liquid, and Hector, is that you had the luck of being born here. The distinction ends there. If you or other U.S.C veterans make mistakes after service, you pay the price but not that of banishment.

      • Liquid Reigns Says:

        If you or other U.S.C (sic) veterans make mistakes after service, you pay the price but not that of banishment.

        You are making the assumption now that all are being deported as aggravated felons, for which only some are. Aggravated felons frequently have one or more criminal convictions. I am aware of the defining of aggravated felon, but as an immigrant you enter the USA and partake of its benefits knowing full well what your restrictions and there outcomes are.

      • Hector Says:

        We are Nationals of The United States as per The U.S.Military Oath of Enlistment (Which is identical to The Oath of Naturalization),and section 1101(a)(22)of The Immigration and Nationality Act. We are also Nationals because of The Status of Force Agreement (S.O.F.A.)

      • Liquid Reigns Says:

        Yes, Hector, you may be a National, but that still does not grant you citizenship nor does it make your status equal to that of a Citizen. See Section 341(b)(2) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), 8 USC 1452(b)(2). The SOFA is protection for the government, an agreement between the countries themselves, it merely defines the legal status of U.S. personnel and property in the territory of another nation.

        It seems you are grasping at straws now to somehow justify your position.

        Which is identical to The Oath of Naturalization

        They are similar, but by no means are they identical. The military oath only establishes that you will uphold the US Constitution against all enemies, that you will obey the orders of the US President and all superior officers according to UCMJ. While the Citizenship oath requires you to absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign Prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which you have heretofore been a subject or citizen.

        Your military oath doesn’t require you to renounce anything, only that you uphold the US Constitution against all enemies of the USA. While the Citizenship oath requires you to completely denounce your prior nationality.

      • bjohns15 Says:

        Hence the resolutions being proposed in congress.

      • Liquid Reigns Says:

        How about a link to those proposed resolutions, Bryan.

      • bjohns15 Says:

        Haven’t looked for the exact resolutions yet; I may do a follow up post with a more specific focus on the resolutions this upcoming monday. If you like what they(the resolutions)do, will you support it? Maybe get ALIPAC on board, or is that wishful thinking?

      • Liquid Reigns Says:

        We are Nationals of The United States as per The U.S.Military Oath of Enlistment (Which is identical to The Oath of Naturalization),and section 1101(a)(22)of The Immigration and Nationality Act.

        Its actually section 1101(a)(22)(B) which states: a person who, though not a citizen of the United States, owes permanent allegiance to the United States.

        (22) The term “national of the United States” means
        (A) a citizen of the United States, or
        (B) a person who, though not a citizen of the United States, owes permanent allegiance to the United States.

        http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/08/usc_sec_08_00001101—-000-.html

        Something about the “though not a citizen of the United States” doesn’t help your claim.

  18. Liquid Reigns Says:

    Yes, Bryan and I stated earlier that I appreciate there service, and the choice they made to serve, I have nothing against that whatsoever, in fact I applaud them for it. However, they can still be deported even while in the military. UCMJ can render them unable to obtain citizenship depending on the action. Once released if they still have not obtained their citizenship they fall under US Immigration Law up to the point of becoming a US Citizen and can be deported for violations during that time. Again, whose fault is it?

    • Hector Says:

      A National(although not a Citizen)carries an American Passport,and owes his or her permanent alliegence to The United States of America.
      As an Honorably Discharged Veteran of The United States Armed Forces my permenant alliegence is to The United States of America,the country that I served and defended and was willing to die for.

  19. Liquid Reigns Says:

    I don’t deal with ALIPAC nor am I a contributor to ALIPAC.

    I will read through the resolution and make decisions based upon the proposals.

  20. Banished Vet. Says:

    Liquid please dont applaud and thank us if your are willing to throw us away. I was deported for a misdemeanor crime. Yes it is my fault I got deported. Only reason I want to go back is for my kids. They need me. I sure as hell cant support them from here. Emotionally or financially. Yea I should have thought about it before I committed my stupid crime. My ex just had to file bankruptcy because she can not get help from me. This affects more then just me. BTW My ex and my kids are all American born.
    Like hector said. We are Nationals. A National is not deport able but they are doing it anyways.

    • bjohns15 Says:

      Rick,

      I did not know you were a banished vet; I thank you for your service and wish that you are able to return to the United States to be reunited with your family.

    • Liquid Reigns Says:

      Are you paying child support to your ex? Whats keeping you from obtaining your children during the legal times of visitation? All are deportable to include a National, the only persons that can not be deported are Citizens.

      Liquid please dont (sic) applaud and thank us if your are willing to throw us away.

      I’m not throwing you away, you did that on your own by committing the crime that rendered you deported.

      • bjohns15 Says:

        A full investigation into the matter should be conducted, don’t you think, Liquid? including evaluation of the personal circumstances of the veterans who were deported to determine if, in fact, the crimes committed were related to disorders obtained while in service, as well as determining if the amendment made to the current law that would be narrowly tailored enough to avoid unintended immigration consequences. Somewhere to start, instead of determining the issue purely on a moral basis, no?

      • Liquid Reigns Says:

        An investigation into section 8 (2)(3)(4) should be done and I agree to that. If those sections are found to be ineffective of staying the deportation, then deportation is the solution.

        including evaluation of the personal circumstances of the veterans who were deported to determine if, in fact, the crimes committed were related to disorders obtained while in service

        These disorders were known as possibilities by the enlistee prior to enlisting, remember this is a volunteer military. I would agree more with your position if the situation was a draft military.

      • bjohns15 Says:

        So by no means would you support an amendment staying immigrant veteran deportations?

      • Banished Vet. Says:

        I was paying child support. Hard to now when I only make 300 to 500 dollars a month. It does not even feed me a full month. You say visitation? Is that a joke? I am 10000 miles away. Want them to walk? Man be for real. I’m done with you.

      • Liquid Reigns Says:

        You say visitation? Is that a joke? I am 10000 miles away.

        So what!

        Man be for real. I’m done with you.

        So because you fathered children in the USA, I’m suppose to somehow feel sorry for you? Your poor choice put you into the position you are in. I’ll leave it at that.

      • Banished Vet. Says:

        No I do not want you to feel sorry for me or anyone. I just gave you the reason why I want to go back. My kids and my kids only. Believe I am sick of white supremacist that are so perfect in every way. I did the crime and I did the time. Oh wait. I never spent a day in jail unless you want to count the 5 months INS held me for. Yes not one freaking day.
        Glad so many Americans are not like you.

      • Liquid Reigns Says:

        No I do not want you to feel sorry for me or anyone.

        I don’t!

        I just gave you the reason why I want to go back. My kids and my kids only.

        That’s understandable, but that doesn’t mean you can’t do what you can from where you are.

        Believe I am sick of white supremacist that are so perfect in every way.

        So I am a White Supremacist simply because you got deported for your crime(s) based on your own choices and faults?

        Oh wait. I never spent a day in jail unless you want to count the 5 months INS held me for. Yes not one freaking day.

        You should feel lucky you didn’t have to spend the 1+ year in jail you were found to be guilty of because you would have still been deported even after your time served.

        Glad so many Americans are not like you.

        As the laws are what I have been stating and the way you were deported, wouldn’t that mean that most Americans are just like me?

      • Banished Vet. Says:

        “fought for my freedom?? I fought for my own freedom”
        Nice way of thinking. White supremacist because you cant even see that people that are willing to die for you and are now in danger because of what they did for you. But you cant see that. Your in your own little perfect world. I am sure your one of the people that believe immigrants only join the service for money and a free citizenship
        I was arrested 7 years and 13 days after my conviction. Funny I had just payed to get my citizenship because I wanted to come down here.
        I do not feel lucky at all. I know what I did wrong. I did counseling. I also volunteer for my community. I didn’t just sit on my behind.
        No, most Americans are not like you. What your stating is totally untrue. Most American do not support the war yet we are there. About my kids. It cost 1000 dollars to fly them here. I have 2 of them. I make 300 to 500 a month. Do I need to do the math? Before I spend that much to only see them for a week I rather put shoes on there feet.

      • Liquid Reigns Says:

        White supremacist because you cant even see that people that are willing to die for you and are now in danger because of what they did for you.

        They did? for me! They (you) joined voluntarily for yourself and to obtain the benefits that come along with military service.
        White Supremacist?? You don’t have anything better? Typical, I don’t agree with your desires so I am labeled. You are simply pathetic in your argument now.

        I am sure your one of the people that believe immigrants only join the service for money and a free citizenship

        First Citizenship isn’t free, if your to ignorant to follow along in the comments with my position and the actual laws I have cited, I don’t know what to tell you. What was your reasoning for joining the military voluntarily then?

        I was arrested 7 years and 13 days after my conviction. Funny I had just payed to get my citizenship because I wanted to come down here.

        You didn’t need your citizenship to go to Uruguay, all you needed was a simple form from DHS, or, if you are considered a National, you would already have a US Passport. In fact if you didn’t have a passport, you should still have your Uruguay passport.

        About my kids. It cost 1000 dollars to fly them here. I have 2 of them. I make 300 to 500 a month. Do I need to do the math? Before I spend that much to only see them for a week I rather put shoes on there feet.

        During the summer months you are entitled to 6 weeks or you can actually modify your documents and she can agree to allow you to have them longer while they are out of school.

  21. Liquid Reigns Says:

    I would support an amendment that looks into the possibility of Section 8 (2)(3)(4), and if applicable would stay deportation for those specific situations only, granting asylum.

    • bjohns15 Says:

      well, an argument can be made that sect. 8(3)(4) could be applicable in all cases. There is also an issue that has not been discussed, at least with regards to vets sent to Mexico and Cent. Am.: Drug Cartels may target them(in fact many have claimed that they have) for recruitment, and given the meager opportunities in those countries, an imm. vet may find that offer lucrative, thus directly contradicting U.S. public interests.

      In fact, i would not be surprised if there are several U.S. veterans, be they citizens or not, that are cashing in as we speak as enforcers for the cartels.

      • Liquid Reigns Says:

        well, an argument can be made that sect. 8(3)(4) could be applicable in all cases.

        Burden of proof falls onto the deportee.

        There is also an issue that has not been discussed, at least with regards to vets sent to Mexico and Cent. Am.: Drug Cartels may target them(in fact many have claimed that they have) for recruitment, and given the meager opportunities in those countries, an imm. vet may find that offer lucrative, thus directly contradicting U.S. public interests.

        That is a possibility.

      • Banished Vet. Says:

        haha so only when it is to your own interest or should I say The US interest. You dont see something wrong with this?
        All veterans that are deported post a threat to the US interest. I’m here waiting for one of this communist that live down here to put a cap on my head.

      • Liquid Reigns Says:

        You should have thought about that prior to your crime.

    • Banished Vet. Says:

      I’m sure every person that knows they did something stupid says that to them self’s. Thank you for your compassion and understanding.

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